Lily Tomlin makes an interesting observation when she says, “Why is it when we talk to God we are said to be praying, and when God talks to us we're said to be schizophrenic?”
Does God speak to you? Of course, most Christians would say that God speaks to them through the Bible. God reveals things about himself through his written word.
But that is not what I’m talking about. I’m asking if you experience the kinds of personal encounters with God that are described in the Bible. God tells Samuel to appoint David as king. God tells Joseph to take the infant Jesus to Egypt because powerful people are out to kill him. God tells Ananias to deliver a message to Saul about the acute case of blindness that befell him a few days earlier.
My own thinking about this matter has been shifting in recent years. Here is a bit of my own journey related to this issue.
I became a Christian in the early 1970s in an environment that valued loving God with your mind. Good theology and right doctrine were emphasized and rightly so. As C. S. Lewis said, “Theology means the ‘science of God’ and I think any man who wants to think about God at all would like to have the clearest and most accurate ideas about Him which are available.” (Chapter 1 of Book 4 of Mere Christianity)
On the other hand, this tradition in which I became a believer tended to distrust any claim of a personal encounter with God. My mentors explained to me that God did not speak to people anymore outside of illuminating them to understand his written word. Prior to the Bible being completed, God had to communicate with people directly. Now that the Bible was complete, they argued, this type of communication was no longer needed.
Similar logic was used to argue that speaking in tongues and miraculous healings and prophetic utterances had also passed away with the completion of God’s written revelation. These things were only needed to give credibility to the original apostles and those who were first preaching the message of Christ. Those of you with theological training will recognize the standard “Cessationist” position I was being taught.
This outlook was just fine with me. People who claimed to experience God were weird. They were slick televangelists who were obvious charlatans or super emotional people who babbled incoherently and claimed it was speaking in tongues. The Cessastionist position seemed reasonable.
In the last few years however, I’ve been rethinking this. While there are a lot of differences between the Old and New Testaments, one consistent pattern is that God engages people in a personal and intimate conversation about their lives and the circumstances in which they find themselves.
God spoke to Adam, Eve, Cain, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Gideon and on and on and on throughout the Old Testament.
This pattern continues into the New Testament:
Simeon is told that he will not die until he has seen the Messiah.
God spoke to the magi and to Joseph about Herod’s evil intent.
God spoke to Paul on the Damascus Road.
God gave Ananias a message to give to Paul.
God spoke to Paul about going to Asia Minor.
God spoke to the Antioch church about sending Paul and Barnabas on a mission trip.
God spoke to Peter about Cornelius and the gentiles.
God spoke to Phillip about chatting with the Ethiopian eunuch.
The phrases "the word of the Lord", "the Lord spoke", "the Lord said", "God spoke" and "God said” occur almost 700 times in the Bible. In some cases, the references are clearly to the written word of God. However, the vast majority of these passages record encounters with God where God “speaks” personally with individuals or groups outside of his written word. It is also interesting to note the way in which God speaks in these personal encounters. Occasionally the means are overtly supernatural like the appearance of an angel or an audible voice. I think this confused me for quite a long time. I did not experience such dramatic encounters.
But more recently I began to notice that the vast majority of God’s encounters with human beings related in the Bible leave the means of God’s communication unspecified or attribute it to something “natural” like a dream. A good example of God speaking by unspecified means is Judges 7:2-11 where God communicates with Gideon about the upcoming battle with Midian. Another example is I Samuel 23 where David “inquired of the Lord” whether he should go to battle against the Philistines and “the Lord answered him and said …” These examples are the norm rather than the exception.Thus, a straight forward reading of this biblical evidence makes it easy to believe that: (1) It is NORMAL for God to speak to his people on a REGULAR basis through personal encounters and private revelations and (2) Most of these encounters do not involve overtly supernatural means like an audible voice or the appearance of an angel but involve natural phenomenon like dreams or an inner voice.
With this biblical basis for believing that God still speaks today, I began to seek out credible examples of this supernatural and personal encounter with the living God.
A friend told me to visit Lookout Mountain Community Church. Within their church, they have a group of trained, lay ministers with prophetic gifts. These people will meet with you and pray for you and tell you things that God is revealing to them about you – things that God wants you to know about what he is doing in your life.
I met with three of these people one evening and it was very profound. They told me things about myself that God was revealing to them – things that were completely true about me and things they had no way of knowing since I was a total stranger to them. They were telling me these things within two minutes of meeting me and knowing nothing about me other than my first name. Furthermore, I’ve had friends that have had similar, credible experiences with these prophetically gifted people at LMCC.
The next step on this journey was getting reintroduced to Jack Deere. Jack was peripherally involved in my becoming a Christian in the 1970s. He was attending Dallas Seminary at the time and was widely recognized as a bright light and a rising star in Evangelical circles. Dallas Seminary was a stronghold of Cessationist thinking and Jack fit right in. When he graduated, he was asked to stay on as a professor and he did just that.
In the mid 1980s however, Jack began to have some encounters with overtly supernatural phenomenon. A man he greatly admired came to a church Jack was leading and conducted a healing service where people Jack knew were healed of chronic aliments. God gave revelations to people that resulted in the resolution of long-standing emotional wounds. Demonic activity became manifested and the demons were driven out. Despite his theology that said that such things no longer happened, Jack could not deny that they were happening right in the midst of his own church.
Over a two year period, Deere came to realize that his theology on this matter had been wrong. His change of theology led to his dismissal from Dallas Seminary. Jack wrote two books on his journey entitled Surprised by the Holy Spirit and Surprised by the Voice of God. They were enormously helpful to me for a number of reasons: (1) I knew Jack personally, (2) He had impeccable theological credentials, (3) He had been a skeptic of the overtly supernatural.
Two other authors have been very helpful. Dallas Willard’s book entitled Hearing God was insightful. And several books by John Eldredge have given me helpful guidance.
In coming posts on this blog, I’ll share some of the encounters that have come from this shift in my thinking on this matter.
But, for the moment, I’m very interested in your own stories. Has God spoken to you about the details and circumstances of your own life? Can you share them with us? Are you willing to be labeled as a schizophrenic?!
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6 comments:
Hmm. I have to admit that my first reaction was "Is Mike going off the deep end? Let's hope for a rapid recovery of the real estate market..."
Seriously though, I am skeptical. Very skeptical. I will admit, however, that scripture can be used by people on both sides of this issue to support their positions.
Part of my skepticism goes back to high school days when I was part of a charismatic group called "Surf Club". Until that time the only thing I knew about the ecstatic gifts was that the apostles spoke foreign tongues on Pentecost. But someone invited me to this group, and I was really intrigued. I saw people exercising the gift of tongues, interpretation, prophesy, etc. And I really desired these gifts. Alas, they never came to me. And as I continued in the group, I came to recognize that each of the tongues speakers had their own little spiel...I recognized the same speech patterns repeating over and over. And although "interpretation" sometimes was forthcoming, most of the time it was not. Except for the singing, most of the meeting was a cacophany of unintelligible noise. Partly because of my recognition of this, and also because the predominant believe of group members was that "unless you have one or more of these gifts, you cannot be a really spiritual Christian," I became disillusioned. High school graduation and transition to college intervened, and that was the end of that phase of my life.
Later I became very familiar with the "cessationalist" viewpoint, and it seemed to validate my observations.
Now don't get me wrong...I am not saying that I am 100% absolutely, irrevokably certain that scripture teaches cessationalism, but that is my leaning. I also know how gullible the human mind can be, especially when a person really, really desires something. We have all seen faith "healings" that turned out to be examples of the mind temporarily overcoming the limitations of the body. We have seen and heard about people who have pushed their bodies beyond all reasonable expectations in order to overcome an obstacle. And we know how cleverly occultic charlatans can be in convincing their clients that they have a real connection to the world beyond.
Finally, I have read and heard the teachings of Bible teachers whom I classify as "great" (John MacArthur, for example) who simply do not share the beliefs of the people Mike has mentioned. I find it all but impossible to believe that someone who has devoted hours and hours each and every day of his life for decades on end to study and prayer, would have reached such divergent conclusions.
Although not their intention at all, I think my parents chose a good name for me when they called me "Thomas". I have always thought of "Thomas the Doubter" or "Doubting Thomas" as a badge of honor, preferring to view the name as meaning "Thomas the non-Gullible," because in the realm of doubtful or uncertain spiritual things, I tend to say "Unless I see with my own eyes...unless I feel with my own hands..." and even then I remember that one's own body and mind are still capable of playing tricks.
So Mike, please do not take this as a rebuff. I think we will have to talk about these things face to face or at least by phone. I am very interested in hearing more.
No rebuff taken. But pick up the books by Jack Deere -- a man who has studied the Bible every bit as deeply as John MacArthur and a skeptic, like yourself.
I love the implications of your name. Names are powerful. I love that Jesus didn't rebuff Thomas.
...good assurance is that your friend, Tom, will one day know the whole truth, not just limited that suits where he is at in his journey
...and guess what...that definitely holds true for you and for me, as well!...no matter what we may right now believe to be true.
...as to hearing from our Triune God
...some of my more conservative, right-wing, mostly Republican, who often out-
Calvin
...surethatObamaisthe anti-ChristandisreallytrulyaMuslimandnoChristianatallandissettoruinAmericasoweneed tovoteforMcCainnomatterwhat
...good friends from as far back as college days
...who regularly let me know that I over-emphasize the "concept of the Trinity," the "Triune,"
...who now see me as a flaming, non-Biblical liberal
...and they say the only way to hear from God is through knowing doctrine
...well, I heard from the "Holy Them," the "Holy Three," the "Trinity...Creator God, the Father...God the Son, Savior, Lord, Friend, Brother to all the created cosmos...God, the Holy Spirit...whom Jesus said was Their Spirit (father and son) who would indwell all those who believe
...I heard, one more time, in a less than "usual Evangelical manner," happened again in July down at Lake City in the middle of the night (11:32 PM, to be exact) when on vacation...surprised me...puzzled me...scared me...thrilled me...and that "epiphonic moment" continues to grow in my soul since returning home
...the last time that happened that acutely was about three years ago
...and that past "epiphonic moment" from the Triune God has continued to steer me to right now
...as have other "epiphonic moments" throughout my 66 years
...the very good news is that every time that has happened, the Spirit has led, and some times chased, me right back into His Word in ways that are hard to explain
...but ways that I cherish on my own journey
...that's more than you bargained for, Mike, but, YES, I have heard distinctly from God, and I believe anyone can...if willing...in God's timing
...I'm not certain if I will see you on Thursday at breakfast
...Mike Todd arrives this evening from BC, and I will need to see where we are with our intentional mentoring time to see if I can come
...I asked Roger if I could bring Mike, but he was not comfortable with that...so I honor that discomfort...even though I know Mike would add greatly to any conversation...it is not the purpose of our breakfasts to have visitor...and...again...I honor that...so if I'm not there, I will miss y'all, one more time. Plus, I've not gotten or received the book y'all have read...so am totally ignorant of it's contents...but always hearing about any book through your eyes, or Roger's.
...keep these blogs coming
...I both welcome and enjoy them
Good Evening Mike!
I have to begin by admitting I'm very suspicious of theology, and thus I know little about the theological things you have written here. (I think one reason for this is what I've learned being a part of the "academic world" for over 35 years.)
And, I will also add that I know much of my understanding of the issues you raise has been greatly influenced by Willard's Divine Conspiracy (perhaps even more so than his Hearing God, which I also like alot).
I know I have "heard" God "speak" to me many times, and upon reflection I suspect most of the time I've not been paying attention. (As an aside, someone once asked if I could ask God one question what would it be. My question would be: How many times in my life did you speak to me and I wasn't paying attention.)
It seems to me that our "modern" worldview so emphasizes what is material, what is touchable, what is measurable, etc. that it is very, very difficult for us to be open to a spiritual side to our reality. I think it is probably ironic that so many think of faith and religion as "spirituality" and yet they seem to also reject an acceptance of a spiritual reality that coexists with our modern worldview.
Over the past 6 months to a year, about the only scripture passages that capture my attention are John 14-17. You may have noted the professor who wrote and delivered his "last lecture." I like to think of John 14-17 as Jesus's last lecture. And, the point that I keep returning to in this "last lecture" is that we will have the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Consider some of the passages:
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever -- the Spirit of Truth."
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you"
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own."
Unfortunately, it is not made clear how to know the Counselor, the Spirit of Truth, is guiding and teaching in my life. I can't put too much theory and conceptual analysis onto these passages (well I can but I suspect doing so takes me away from where I need to be to hear the Counselor). I can only try to respond to their impact on my life. I trust these passages are true, and I suspect the Counselor is guiding me time and again to these passages for a reason.
But, this guidance that I assume is present hasn't only looked like my attention to specific passages of scripture. There is a "voice," there is an understanding, there is a reflection on past moments and events, at times there is a "voice" inherent in what is spoken by another, and there was once a vision (maybe twice). I have come to want to trust my intuition, especially my leaps of intuition.
I fear that if I doubt what I take away from Jesus's last lecture, then I will miss most, maybe almost all, of the occasions the Counselor and the Spirit of Truth seeks to guide me. I fear that if I rely on the modern world view that I grew up with, then I will have only a material view of the world and I will miss much of my spiritual life with Jesus.
We have recently been exposed to your very thoughts. Our small group at chuch read WALKING WITH GOD by John Eldredge, which has this very theme. As a result, we have been trying to have more of a conversation with God, asking Him questions and listening for an answer. I agree that Looking at scripture thru new eyes, one can see that we should be listening for God, because if we are quiet, we will hear him speak. In John 10 when Jesus describes himself as the Good Shepherd, he says that he calls his sheep by name and that his sheep listen to him and know his voice. When our group finished the Eldredge book, we asked God if He wanted us to keep meeting or stop. We all got a 'yes" ao we asked Him what we should study, another book or a book of the Bible. The group all heard 'study the Bible' so we asked 'what book?" The answer came back 'Hebrews'. We were fine with that, but were concerned about how to best conduct the study. I spoke to Ryan, one of our ministers and he said that one of his teachers at Moody had a fantastic study with videos and lectures on Hebrews. Now I acknowledge that I am not presenting proof that God spoke to us, but I am satisfied and want to continue my conversations with God. I found the Eldredge book to be very helpful. He gives examples where he feels emotions and asks God about what he is feeling. Out of those question came new understanding of himself and his injuries and areas of brokenness. As I have asked questions, God has showed me things about myself that I hadn't considered, allowing me to heal. I look forward to talking to you about this , Mike
My friend Marty sent some comments in a private email that I can share with you:
"Good stuff ... do believe that the Lord has spoken to me on a few memorable occasions. Until recently most of my "charismatic" experiences were somewhat negative: "Hearing" the Lord say, "you're out of here" during a staff meeting and subsequently making a major life change based on that word; "hearing" the Lord say, "Shut up, you don't believe this for a minute" while teaching on the parable of the sower and the seed and truly not being able to continue teaching (the same thing happened again two or so years later ... same parable, different teaching venue). Interestingly, these, though they seemed negative at the moment, were the springboard to real growth and the two classes, instead of losing confidence in me as a teacher (I would have!) gained confidence and respect (go figure).
Some recent experiences have been much more positive and seem to have come out of learning how to be sufficiently quiet to hear the Lord."
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