Thanks for the comments some of you made publicly on my last post – the one about hearing from God about becoming like a little child.
In addition to the public comments, I got a private communication that was profoundly honest and impactful. It raises some important questions and issues and I’d like to know what you think about it.
Let’s call this person Bob – not his/her real name. I’ll give you a redacted version of his comments (with personal info removed) and tell you some thoughts that I passed on to him. Most importantly, I’d love to see if any of you have any words of wisdom for him in his current situation.
Bob’s Email:
So I have been thinking a lot about your whole hearing God talk thing. It is not working for me. I am caught in a vicious cycle and I don't know what to do about it. I feel so guilty that I am still not over the [traumatic personal situation]. I know I have a lot of things going for me but I just can't get past it. I have been praying like crazy about it. I have prayed for [the situation], that God is working in [it]. I have been asking God to please let me see this situation through his eyes. What does he know or have in store for me that I am too blind to see right now. He doesn't even have to tell me what those things are but just tell me that [He is at work].
But then I have been reading "Walking with God" and there was a chapter that talked about [how we need to be willing to hear things we don’t want to hear before God will speak to us]. The Lord knows my heart. I know that I only want to hear from him that [the situation is going to get resolved in the way I want]. But any other plan, I really don't [want to hear about that]. I say I do...but it would be both silly and pointless to hide [my true desires] from God. It is not that I don't want to feel that way. I so desperately want to be able to trust in him ...
So then I try to pray about those things. Try the honesty approach. The true things I am feeling. Maybe God has something to say about those things. Still nothing.
So there is also a story in the book [Walking with God] that talks about how you can't start out asking questions like these when you haven't had a conversational relationship with God before. You need to start out small and build up to it. So I have been trying to do that. Going back to basics. Reading from the Bible, telling God what is happening throughout my day, taking time to just say hi. And while it helps to get through the day, still no words...not working. Really the only reason that I am asking the small questions is so that I can eventually ask the big question, the one I really want to know about. And God knows that too. Just going through the motions to get to an end result that I want.
In one of [Pastor So and So’s] sermons, he talked about how people use God. How we want Jesus to be a vending machine (just pick what you want) and how we treat him like a prostitute. Use him for your current needs and then go on your merry way. I don't want to do this. But I don't know how to stop feeling like I am feeling. And I don't know how to feel the way I am feeling and make any progress. I can't lie about how I feel about [the situation] but I can't get anything accomplished while I feel this way. Cycle. Back and forth. No end in sight. My inability to see anything clearly has become like a prison.
So I was thinking, if you can hear from God, maybe you could ask him about me. Ask him what I am supposed to do. I can't do it. If I can get over this hump then maybe I can start small with him from the beginning. I feel so ashamed that I can't do it.
My Response:
I feel so badly about your situation. I know what it is like to live in pain and confusion and it is the pits. Here are some thoughts (in no particular order):
You are completely healthy spiritually because you recognize that you can’t hide your true thoughts and feelings and wishes from God. I finally figured this out two or three years ago. I realized that, while it is wrong to lie to others and unproductive to lie to myself, it is actually impossible to lie to God.
I love your honesty. I love that you are free to say that hearing from God is not working for you. I love that you are acknowledging that you’ve got desires and can’t just ignore them. I love that you refuse to pretend that you are willing to hear any answer to your dilemma when you know you are not.
I think Eldredge is wrong when he talks about the need to be willing to hear any answer before you can hear from God. We just can’t fake that. I think you are on the right track with the “honesty approach” and I would just keep on with that at the moment. The Psalms are full of people who cry out to God and demand action and intervention. They were not “neutral” and willing to hear just any old answer.
As to why you haven’t heard anything, I have several thoughts. First, you and I are new at this and it takes practice. You wouldn’t play golf like Tiger Woods if you went to a golf course. Everything takes practice – even spiritual things. For example, teaching is a spiritual gift but teachers study and get training and find their gift developing over time. With most of the things I’m asking God about, I hear only silence. Hearing from God is still a fairly rare experience for me but I’m going to keep practicing. I’m new to this whole endeavor.
Secondly, there is a massive (though unseen) spiritual battle that is swirling around us all the time. Demonic forces don’t want us to hear from God and they have a lot of power in this world. Daniel prayed and fasted for three weeks before he got an answer from God. When an angel showed up, he told Daniel that God sent him to answer Daniel’s prayer from the moment he first prayed. The three week delay was caused by rebellious, demonic forces that kept the angel from getting through right away. There is always stuff going on, both human and demonic, that we have no control over.
I also think [Pastor So and So] was at least partly wrong with the vending machine/prostitute analogy. We Christians sometimes fall into a trap of saying things that sound pious but are really just a bunch of damned nonsense when we stop to think about it a little more deeply. [Pastor So and So] does not do so very often but I think he succumbed in this case.
C. S. Lewis has much better insight into this issue of going to God with our needs. In the introduction to The Four Loves, he talks about how he came to conclude that our love for God cannot be divorced from our needs. He says …
"… in ordinary life no one calls a child selfish because it turns for comfort to its mother; … Every Christian would agree that a man's spiritual health is exactly proportional to his love for God. But man's love for God, from the very nature of the case, must always be very largely, and must often be entirely, a Need-love. This is obvious when we implore forgiveness for our sins or support in our tribulations. But in the long run it is perhaps even more apparent in our growing – for it ought to be growing – awareness that our whole being by its very nature is one vast need; incomplete, preparatory, empty yet cluttered, crying out for Him who can untie things that are now knotted together and tie up things that are still dangling loose … It would be a bold and silly creature that came before its Creator with the boast, 'I'm no beggar. I love you disinterestedly.' … And God will have it so. He addresses our Need-love: 'Come unto me all ye that travail and are heavy-laden,' or, in the Old Testament, 'Open your mouth wide and I will fill it.'"
Back to the demonic – the guilt and shame you feel is absolutely demonic. That is not coming from God and is a sure sign that sinister forces are at work.
I’m rambling a bit but here is another thought: I don’t think that God has some pre-set plan for [resolving your dilemma]. I think there are things about the future that even God does not know because they depend on the free choices of people and angels and demons. Even if God wants to [resolve the situation the way you want it resolved], it might not happen due to choices that others make in the matter. While this is a somewhat controversial view, there are well-respected and credible theologians who would agree with this perspective.
At any rate, it seems like a dangerous time for you right now. The enemy is always quick to use our pain and disappointments against us and against God. He is there right there with his accusations disguised as our own thoughts: “God has abandoned me.” or “God must be really angry with me.” or “This just proves that there is no God – I’ve just been engaged in wishful thinking.” Etc. So, I’ll be praying about this aspect of the issue
Of course, I will ask God about anything he might want to say to you. .
Your Thoughts:
How about you? Are there any thoughts that you’d want to pass on to Bob about his anguish or my response to it?
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2 comments:
Marty sent the following comments to me via email:
Just wanted to comment on a few things in your response to Bob.
Back to the demonic – the guilt and shame you feel is absolutely demonic. That is not coming from God and is a sure sign that sinister forces are at work.
This is way too strong in my opinion unless you mean that the guilt and shame are, themselves, the"demons." So many people associate "demonic" with sinister little beings outside of themselves that they attribute to something other than themselves what is often fallen stuff within themselves.
At best they end up holding some "other" responsible for what they need to take responsibility for and authority over. Taking "authority over" is impossible if you do not believe you have "responsibility for."
At worst, they fall into despair because they erroneously (in my estimation) believe they are being controlled by another against whom they are absolutely powerless. None of this is to say that demonic possession is not a reality. The Catholics have a very mature view of this and they are very, very careful not to attribute to demons, on the one hand, or to miracles, on the other, what is properly understood to be the result of human fallenness (on the one
hand) and common grace (on the other).
I'm rambling a bit but here is another thought: I don't think that God has some pre-set plan for [resolving your dilemma]. I think there are things about the future that even God does not know because they depend on the free choices of people and angels and demons. Even if God wants to [resolve the situation the way you want it resolved], it might not happen due to choices that others make in the matter. While this is a somewhat controversial view, there are well-respected and credible theologians who would agree with this perspective.
With this, too, I would exercise caution. I think we are on very shaky ground when we dogmatically postulate what God is not capable of or does not know ("... there are things about the future that even God does not know ..."). How does one know this without just making a dogmatic assertion? To say this assumes that we are
capable of determining what God does or does not know. Instead of
staying on the path of tension which runs between the "sovereignty of God" and the "freedom of man," one just arbitrarily resolves the tension by stepping off on the side of man's freedom. It seems to me that one can step (fall?) off the path on the right side or the left side. Because some people have fallen off on one side is no justification for falling off on the other.
At any rate, it seems like a dangerous time for you right now.
True, good.
The enemy is always quick to use our pain and disappointments against us and against God. He is there right there with his accusations disguised as our own thoughts:
I might say this in a bit different way: "Our pain and disappointment can be powerful forces working against us and against our relationship with God. When our thoughts accuse us we can often confuse that with the mistaken belief that God is accusing us." The principle I see here is that we should not attribute to another being what can reasonably be attributed to our fallen selves. This is like science not attributing to a higher level of causation what can be reasonably attributed to a lower level of causation. This is also what the Catholic Church, which certainly believes in miracles, does when investigating, and often denying, the claim that a miracle has taken place.
"God has abandoned me." or "God must be really angry with me." or "This just proves that there is no God – I've just been engaged in wishful thinking." Etc. So, I'll be praying about this aspect of the issue.
Of course, I will ask God about anything he might want to say to you. .
Probably just the kind of thoughts he is having. Glad you are praying for him!!
Another friend wrote the following about Bob's situation:
I think your advice to "Bob" is wise [although I am not sure I can fully go with the idea that God doesn't know everything about the future :) ]. It is also wonderful that you have been the kind of friend that he trusts as he clearly does. No surprise to me!
A few thoughts I have, in case they might be helpful:
1. Sometimes we want to hear from God through His voice or an inner-prompting. I have found that God speaks to us in a variety of ways. I don't know what his situation is that is troubling him. Sometimes what God has spoken in Scripture can provide direct or parallel direction. I have had people say things like: "I know what the Bible says I should do, but I want to hear a new word from God." Sometimes people already know what they need to know. Is there Biblical direction that apply to his situation?
2. One of the most powerful ways I think God often speaks is through other people. That is one of the reasons I am glad for the trust he has with you. The Holy Spirit actively works in and through the Body of Christ. Asking godly people he knows what he believes God would say to him about this situation can be a powerful way of not only hearing from God, but experiencing the support of having fellow believers walk with him through this.
3. There is an important concept of "waiting on God." It sounds like he is doing this. However sometimes simply waiting until one hears (or hears what they want to hear) can be paralyzing. I find that God often moves in the lives of those who take initial steps of faith with what they do know. One example of this is the Apostle Paul on his second missionary journey. He had an idea of where God wanted him to go. It was while he was on his journey that God redirected him to Macedonia through a vision/dream. The Pslamist says his word is a lamp for our feet - one step at a time. To put it simply and a bit tritely, it is easier to steer a moving car. If his situation is one that requires him to take new action, it might be helpful to begin to move in a direction and see how God leads him.
4. Lastly, beneath whatever is going on, God desires to shape our character. The fruit of the Spirit are all about our character being shaped. As you rightly point out, there are plenty of Biblical precedents for those who tire of waiting for God to speak or act. Even Jesus experienced this in the garden and on the cross. The common denominator is the call to trust. As we faithfully trust God, he changes us in the process.
I hope something in all of this is helpful - beyond the wisdom you already passed on to Bob.
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